Murder is also on the rise in Washington, D.C., where gun laws also are quite strict, and haven’t changed yet despite the impending ruling in Heller. Another inexplicable mystery!

If there is any access to automatic weapons at all some would think that to be too much, even if said weapons only involved in a few crimes. Regardless, I see no need to argue the point because I don’t think that either gun control or gun rights is the central issue. It’s a wedge issue not the central issue.

I don’t like the idea of moving towards a totalitarian police state and/or infringing on rights, but it’s a question of which is the greater evil and what is the greater good.

Pick your poison. If I were police chief or living in the ghetto I would say, “stop the damn violence, no matter what it takes”. Unfortunately a lot of folks from the hood don’t see it that way, not even to mention you uptown Rethuglican types.

It’s hard when the violence is concentrated in the inner city rather than in your own cozy little suburban home.

It gets even harder when you get this rash of school shootings in the suburbs, hard to explain away. At least this type of violence seems to be on the uptick across the world, not just here in the U.S. Not uniquely a homegrown problem but seemingly very much a problem all the same.

I see the issue as more about violence and the root causes of violence and less about specific gun control vs. gun rights issues, not that those issues are unimportant in their own right.

If you guys want to say gun rights are paramount, fine, I have no big problem with that. I’m not trying to pry your Uzi out of your cold dead fingers. I’m not convinced that gun control will have excellent results by itself.

If so, then perhaps the focus should either be considered unnecessary (no problem with violence exists - not what I hear) or the focus should be moved elsewhere, which I can endorse.

If you don’t like that Washington, DC idea, feel free to suggest your own alternative or simply default to the belief that no problem exists and so nothing should be done.

Bill,

I dunno. When I went to bed last nite I left my S&W;lying on the night stand fully loaded. When I woke up this morning there were 4 empty casings in it and it smelled like gunpowder, cheap booze and pine tree air freshener.

This wouldn’t be the first time it’s snuck out after bed time either.

Now…what to do. If automatic weapons ARE easily available then this would be the most powerful argument yet that gun control laws are ineffective since automatic weapons are the most tightly controlled of all firearms. If they aren’t easily available then someone is….ummm…not speaking from an informed position so…

either way he makes the pro gun point.

“The fact of the matter is that violence has a great many root causes, of which too easy access to weapons, including automatic weapons, is only one.“

Automatic weapons are easily accessible?  Let me know where I can get a full-auto Uzi, wouldja?  I would love one of those.

“I think one city, Washington DC perhaps, has an interesting new idea to combat violence. They are putting up mandatory roadblocks to intercept drivebys.“

Yup - an interesting and blatantly unconstitutional idea.  Of course, the SCOTUS has hollowed out the 4th Amendment until it is now a dried-out husk of what it originally was meant to be, so this latest move further towards a totalitarian police state likely will be upheld. 

BTW, what’s this “gun violence” thing?  None of my guns have ever indicated violent tendencies.

The issue of gun control is a hot button issue with conservatives in spite of the fact that a great many libs are NRA types themselves.

It’s a wedge issue, a kneejerk emotional issue. It is co-opted by conservatives the same way the libs have co-opted environmentalism and education for themselves. Do conservatives have no views on those issues ? Of course they do, but the libs own those issues.

The fact of the matter is that violence has a great many root causes, of which too easy access to weapons, including automatic weapons, is only one.

Is it an issue worth fighting over ? Maybe not. However, as long as wedge issues can drive people to the voting booth, get them agitated, make them vote one way or another, then it will continue to come up over and over, particularly during an election season.

We are all being played by the political pros.

I think one city, Washington DC perhaps, has an interesting new idea to combat violence. They are putting up mandatory roadblocks to intercept drivebys.

It appears to be working but too early to tell. That is the kind of out of the box thinking that will help end gun violence, not stale debates over gun control and guns vs. knives.

Larry: “I still like my idea best (of course): Hammer-down, maximum penalties for all violent criminals ages 11-23. I’m talking draconian max. If this were done, violent crime would fade away fast enough…“.

Sorry it cannot be done in the 21st Century USA. First, since most are black, it would be racist. Second, it is not politically correct. Third, these are children. Fourth, it is the fault of the suburban taxpayers not giving inner cities tax monies. You just don’t get it:)

Larry:

“HOW are these murder victims in D.C. dying?! Cyanide poisoning? Being punched in the nose repeatedly? No—IT’S GUNS! HELLO!!!!!!!!“

Uh - I think that was Bart’s point.  D.C. has effectively banned private ownership of functioning firearms, even in the private home, yet the rate of murders by gun remains high. 

Meanwhile, here in VA, and many other states, where it’s not only legal to own guns, it’s legal to carry one around - you don’t even need a permit, if you carry openly - the crime rate is far lower.

Must be those D.C. guns cause crime somehow.

“I believe pot should be legal but not heroin…“

Well, I’ve totally changed my views on the criminalization of drugs. Go ‘head, legalize pot I say. And go ahead & de-criminalize a whole lot of non-violent crimes.

I’m not at all concerned that some screwball has purposefully written a bad check at the drugstore. It doesn’t phase me in the least that weird Johnny has a shoplifting habit. I don’t give a rats ass how many times Bubba drives on a revoked license.

I do care about violent crime though. We aren’t putting enough backbone into curtailing it. THIS is where our focus should be, solely.

Lock ‘em all up—heavy & hard with no ‘considerations’. Then the violence will disappear; then many of us can go anywhere we want, at anytime of day, never having to wonder if something bad’s gonna happen.

Wait!

How much power could be produced by 150 criminals on a giant stairmaster?

Larry,

The key is to strike a balance between laws to restrict criminals and laws allowing firearm ownership. It’s the same as with illegal drugs. I believe pot should be legal but not heroin…just as I believe handguns and semi auto rifles should be legal but not Uzi’s and REAL assault weapons (not just rifles that look like assault weapons) or begging but not aggressive harrasment…

I don’t believe society should let the worst citizens define how we should all be treated. I don’t believe the gov’t should assume we’re all criminals. It’s the other way around.

I like your idea of real punishment. Not reform…punishment.  As it stands now, prison is just an extension of the culture most of these criminals were in when they were free. Imagine being on a chain gang road crew on a day like today!

“shakin over here boss!“

I am assuming that R. Smith, you’re correct. It is much easier to kill with a gun than by any other means. A person with a gun doesn’t have to do much—and they know it. Just press the trigger & high-tail it!

Same way—if it were incredibly easy to rob banks (even easier than now) you’d better believe more people would be doing it.

Ok, but if the point is that gun control laws don’t work in D.C. then yes that appears to be true.  And you’re right about something else—the underlying problem is the behavior of the people behind the trigger. But I personally don’t see the solution in being lax on guns. If we’re lax on guns then that’s even MORE weapons that the criminals have to kill with. I don’t see the logic there, I just don’t.

I still like my idea best (of course): Hammer-down, maximum penalties for all violent criminals ages 11-23. I’m talking draconian max. If this were done, violent crime would fade away fast enough…

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