The Virginia Center for Public Safety has sent out an e-mail alert warning recipients about HB 710, a bill that it says “would eliminate a citizen’s duty to retreat to avoid a threat and allow him/her to freely use deadly force to protect against bodily harm and/or trespassing.”
And that would be wrong because. . . ?
Well, says the Center,
HB 710 threatens the fabric of our justice and legal system. It would replace a trained police force with private citizens permitted and encouraged to assume the role of police officer, prosecutor, judge, and executioner. What’s worse, the bill would make shooters immune to all criminal and civil penalties for their actions!
More than a dozen other states have passed similar “stand-your-ground” laws, amid similar dire warnings. Florida was the first. Florida also was one of the first states to pass a “shall-issue” concealed-carry permit law. The effects have not been what gun-control advocates would lead you believe.
Faced with an intruder, which would you rather have: A gun in your hand, or a cop on the phone?
P.S. — As noted here last year:
The obvious problem with applying the duty to retreat to the homeowner is that, inside his domicile, the homeowner already has retreated. He has closeted himself away from the outer world inside what should be his zone of privacy and security. To demand that he then retreat even further (where to? a closet? a panic room?) is absurd.
Reader Comments:
Roy don’t hold your breath waiting. And be sure to shave regularly while waiting, else you’ll grow a lengthy beard. I visited the Brady Campaign site and dropped them a note on Tuesday, about their completely false and hyperbolic e-mail they had sent out.
I do not expect any reply or response at all.
I just sent the following to VCPS at the ‘Contact us’ page of their website. Will post whatever response I receive.
———————-
Why do statements from VCPS, and its spokespersons, so frequently mis-state facts? See <http://tinyurl.com/yq2x95> and comments for at least two examples of this.
I stress here that I am NOT saying this merely because I disagree with your positions on many issues. You may be right on some of these; Lord knows, I’ve been wrong before.
What does upset me is when representatives from any group get up in front of a committee of the Virginia General Assembly and either lie outright, or reveal that they have not read the bill about which they are testifying.
I’ve been down at the Assembly, off and on, for thirty-five years. Never once during that time have I lied, and almost never have I been ignorant of what I was speaking about. It dismays me that another group of idealists cannot hold itself to that standard, which I would consider to be pretty much the least to be expected.
I’ll look forward to hearing your response.
(This message copied to a list or two, as will be your response.)
—Roy B. Scherer
That was not a true story for me, thank goodness. I had a close call once where I was fixing lunch and got a creepy feeling and looked over my shoulder and saw someone peering in. He started running down the fire escape and I, unarmed, gave chase for a short distance just to scare him. It turns out that he had a friend who was busting in the back door of the first floor apartment. Fortunately they both ran. There was a young lady behind that back door who had armed herself with a shotgun.
My wife was in her apartment in the middle of the day when she heard someone breaking in the front door. She grabbed a gun and then got out by way of the fire escape. The police caught him.
So there are 2 true stories with happier endings than my hypo. Bill, I suspect that I don’t need to suggest to you that you enter “armed citizen stories” into a search engine to get real stories.
HB710 sounds like a good law to prevent citizens from being victimized twice. And I have to think that the risk that an intruder may encounter an armed citizen at home has some crime deterrent value, for everyone. I don’t see many signs that declare “a gun-free home”.
“Why should I have to hire lawyers. Why should I have to spend time in court.”
You shouldn’t.
“I already feel like a victim.”
You should.
Is this a true story, or a hypo?
I’m sitting at home using my computer. I do have a gun close by, stainless steel, because I’m lazy about cleaning it. Crash. I hear the sound of splintering wood and glass as someone breaks in my back door. I start to feel testosterone. I feel the heavy gun in one hand. I’m dialing 911 with the other. A crazy man appears, yelling about beer, and rips open the refrigerator. He is making a big mess. I’m scared but I don’t do anything with the gun, my life is not in danger. The guy notices I have the phone. “Hey” he yells, “You’re not calling any cops.” He reaches into his pants and starts drawing something out. I see a handle. I see a barrel. The barrel is starting to swing towards me. Bang. I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to hear again but at least I’m alive. I really have tried to follow the 10 commandments. As things are now, I could be sued by the guy’s family. I was minding my own business in my own home and did not want to die. Why should I have to hire lawyers. Why should I have to spend time in court. I already feel like a victim. Why should I be victimized more. They need to pass a law against that. I wasn’t enforcing any laws. I was just keeping myself from being dead.
“On Monday, the House Militia, Police, and Public Safety Committee will consider HB 710, a bill that would allow a gun owner to shoot and kill another person >>in public areas<<, even if their life were not in danger. This bill eliminates a citizen’s >>duty to avoid a threat<< and instead allow the gun user to “shoot first” and ask questions later… or never.”
Oh my gawd! Holy crap, my head is going to explode! Somebody pass me the duct tape.
What a bunch of blatant, bald-faced liars. Jeez, how low will they stoop? This is disgusting!
mutter, mutter, mutter… harumph!
Bill said, ‘If that woman from VCPS said this bill would allow that sort of shooting with no recourse, she either was flat-out lying or just plain stupid. I vote “both.”’
Well, hard to argue with that, and I didn’t have the chance to talk with her about the matter, though I’d have liked to do so.
My own suspicion is that there’s a different standard in play here. Part of the “New Age” (rhymes with “sewage”) philosophy seems to be that there is no such thing as objective truth, and that twisting reality to support “good” ends is allowable.
*sigh*
Meanwhile, in England, a huge minority of the public thinks that Winston Churchill, Florence Nightingale, and Richard the Lionhearted are mythical, while Sherlock Holmes was real.
http://tinyurl.com/2bsjrk
“O tempora, o mores!”
It gets even better. Here’s the email that the Brady Campaign sent out, on the second (>>emphasis<< mine):
URGENT: Help Stop Shoot First in Virginia!
Dear Virginia Brady Campaign Member,
On Monday, the House Militia, Police, and Public Safety Committee will consider HB 710, a bill that would allow a gun owner to shoot and kill another person >>in public areas<<, even if their life were not in danger. This bill eliminates a citizen’s >>duty to avoid a threat<< and instead allow the gun user to “shoot first” and ask questions later… or never.
This legislation permits the average citizen to bypass our entire justice system by permitting him or her to assume the role of police officer, prosecutor, judge, and executioner—but it doesn’t stop there—this bill also protects the shooter from civil liability!
[SNIP of further bed-wetting and panicking, plus begging for money]
They either (a) haven’t read the freaking bill, or (b) are lying. My guess, given other stuff I’ve received from them, is (b). My wife thinks I’m a mean person for sneering at, and mocking, the other side. I think that blatant falsehood deserves mockery.
I do not carry a gun because I want to “play cop”. I carry a gun to save my own @$$ when it’s in danger. If I see someone robbing a 7-11, I’m not drawing my gun. I’ll get out the cell phone and call 911, then watch. As long as the guy doesn’t come after me, or start shooting people willy-nilly, I’m going to watch and wait for the cops.
Incidentally, when police shoot people, about 11% of the time it’s the wrong person or a bystander. For citizens shooting in self-defense, it’s around 2%.
I’m not claiming that citizens are better than cops. The difference is that a cop coming into the middle of a situation doesn’t necessarily know who’s the good guy vs who’s the bad guy. If someone’s assaulting me, I know durn well who’s the bad guy.
If that woman from VCPS said this bill would allow that sort of shooting with no recourse, she either was flat-out lying or just plain stupid. I vote “both.”
I mean, good lord, has she even read the test of the legislation and made the tiniest attempt to process it in what passes for a brain in her head? How any rational person could read that bill and conclude that it would allow a person to shoot someone for knocking on the front door is beyond me. The bill expressly requires unlawful entry into a dwelling AND an overt act leading to an objectively reasonable belief of a threat of imminent serious injury.
Because the facts never are on their side, the anti-gun crowd always resorts to good ol’-fashioned lies, distortions and hyperbolic rhetoric.
Well, House Courts reported this bill this afternoon. Now, it goes to the full House, then goes through committee and floor votes in the Senate.
There was someone at the Committee from VCPS who opposed the bill by bringing up the case of the foreign exchange student who was shot after he knocked on a door in Texas a few years ago, asking for directions. He had the misfortune of choosing a door belonging to someone who was extremely xenophobic, or paranoiac, or both. She said that the bill would allow that sort of murder in Virginia, and there would be no recourse.
That case, of course, has virtually nothing in common with Delegate Janis’ bill which doesn’t give anyone immunity to arrest or prosecution if there’s reason to believe that a crime has been committed.
All it does is protect a person who is lawfully in a private residence from being sued for using force under carefully limited circumstances: where someone has “unlawfully entered the dwelling, has committed an overt act toward the occupant or another person in the dwelling, and the occupant reasonably believes he or another person in the dwelling is in imminent danger of bodily injury.” All three circumstances must obtain for the immunity to apply.
Sounds good to me, and I hope that it becomes law.
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