The late, great Molly Ivins famously said Pat Buchanan’s speech at the 1992 GOP convention “probably sounded better in the original German.“ If only she were alive today to read Buchanan’s defense of Hitler.

Buchanan’s explanation for the invasion of Poland: They were askin’ for it! —

Hitler had not wanted war with Poland. He had wanted an alliance with Poland in his anti-Comintern pact against Joseph Stalin.

But the Poles refused to negotiate.

The dirty bums! (And as for those

Jews

. . . .)

RSmith, thanks for the explanation.
 
All, with no intent to reference any comments by any recent presidential candidate, the flavor of this discussion has become rather “bitter”.  Since very few of us here really expect to change the underlying attitudes of another participant, perhaps we could remain civil, and limit our expectations to occasionally changing someone’s position on a specific issue, or perhaps instructing another participant in their ignorance. (As RSmith did for me when he answered my question.)
 
We got Demlicans, we got Republicrats, we got at least one Libertarian, we got a Green that visits on occasion.  I don’t expect any life-changing epiphanies for anyone here—but maybe we can all learn a bit from each other!

“You guys, Roger mainly, go ballistic over whether or not Hitler came into power via a coup d’etat or not ?! OK. Gotta love it.“

I didn’t see anyone “going ballistic” until that post…

...In which the predictable Nazi connection is tossed out - and then subsequently denied.  Nice.  Good to see you back in your old form there, Ed.  And here I thought you could be reasonable.  Let me know when the meds wear off.

And for an example of creeping totalitarianism that’s occuring right before our eyes, look no further than the current globot “movement”. It has all the classic signs…fanaticism, moral supremicism, ideological extremism, a collaborative media, profiteering industrialists and the blessing of the machinery of the STATE.

This guy, who I’m sure you’ll disregard as an unenlightened antigoogle rube, knows a turd when he smells one.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/blue_planet_in_green_shackles.html

So in closing, it’s not about a particular event and drawing simplistic paralells between historic events like the Reichstag fire, it’s about understanding to timeless gullibility and stupidity, greed, arrogance and apathy of the human race. That’s why understanding history is so important.

Professor Google, please explain this remark…

“I’m glad you guys are familiar with every facet of Adolf Hitler’s history. In fact, I might have predicted an intimate familiarity.“

It’s one thing to make a comment like that. It’s almost pathological to then pretend you meant nothing by it.

I have a consuming interest in history. I’ve read quite a bit about the Russin Revolution as well. Does that make me a communist?

As for our original point, you said Hitler was installed by a coup. I said it was not a coup but, instead, a string of events that spanned many years and was allowed to happen with the consent of millions and millions of Germans who actively supported or were at best apathetic to what was happening because they either profited from it or were caught up in the zeitgeist.

You, and your so called “experts” are wrong because you’re theory that Hitler seized power absolves those millions who watched his rise and eagerly jumped on his nazi wagon. It’s as silly as saying the firing on Fort Sumter started the Civil War.

So much bitterness.

Roger, how did you prove I was wrong.

Did you state anything at all to invalidate my thesis or did you just sling barbed words.

Anything at all.

And to repeat, what the heck are we arguing about. I believe it centers on whether Hitler’s grab of the Reichstag was technicaly considered a coup or not. Does this matter to anyone at all ? Well yeah, historians would get excited about such things. No one else even if there are a ton of armchair historians out there.

I will be happy to be educated if you can properly convince me you are right. I hope you would extend me the same honor but I notice people make a general habit of accusing others of their own shortcomings, such as a narrow mind.

By the way, I used the word “bitterness” in humor, a play on Obamaisms. I don’t see this issue as terribly important but I don’t fault you for touting your almost impressive knowledge of extinct 20th century political systems.

In fact, I did not accuse you of being a Nazi. Pretty much the entire response to this thread has been, up til now, stating that playing the Nazi card is just name calling. I’m not calling you Nazi and it would be idiotic to turn it around on me (although I’m sure that won’t stop you if you get the urge). 

And just who, are you, of all people, calling partisan ?  Are you going to say you are not partisan. I find that flat impossible to believe based on your innumerable postings.

Talk about bitter! Obviously some people can’t handle being exposed as the anti intellectual fraud they really are.

Someone who is honestly interested in knowledge and truth seeks to educate himslf in all areas at all times. Someone who is simply a vacant partisan pretending to be a moderate intellectual, runs away from the truth shouting “I knew you were nazi’s!.... Neh neh neh!“

A vacuous prog will refuse to even acknowledge the truth of history as it might conflict with his own tediously constructed happy land where all facts are malleable and can be formed to fit into his narrow little mind.

So much bitterness.

You guys, Roger mainly, go ballistic over whether or not Hitler came into power via a coup d’etat or not ?! OK. Gotta love it.

Just Google “Hitler’s Reichstag fire coup” and you get the opposing viewpoint from experts, assuming anyone could be more brilliant than Roger and Bill. Ahem. I’m overwhelmed by your brilliance.

Plus your usual sniping about Wikipedia (too liberal) shallow partisans (too liberal) simplistic comparisons (too liberal) and Nazi history a goldmine (your wasted thoroughly worthless youth). 

I’m glad you guys are familiar with every facet of Adolf Hitler’s history. In fact, I might have predicted an intimate familiarity.

Apparently a lot of people are confused about this period in history. Obama claimed over the weekend that his uncle helped liberate Auschwitz at the end of WW2.

That would be impossible unless the GREAT LEADERS uncle was in the Red Army….which may not be all that outlandish considering the GREAT LEADERS political associations and philosophy.

Roy,

One of Hitlers favorite rants, especially early on, centered on the common belief among ex soldiers that Germany would have won WW1 had the Kaiser not been cut off from further loans from the “jewish controlled” financial system in Germany.

You have to remember that, in early 1918, France was near collapse and it’s army on the verge of outright revolt. Russia and allowed Germany to concentrate on the Western Front. America had entered the war but, not in large enough numbers to really stop the Germans were France to fold. Americas entry was more a moral booster for the French and British than anything else. When this happened, the Kaiser’s backers said “enough”. The German Army never forgave them for that and Hitler exploited this resentment while also mulling into the mix the already present anti semitism common in Europe at the time.

Ed’

You’re right. There are plenty of people who would argue that Hitler was installed by coup. This is especially true of all the millions who eagerly supported him while things were going good and he served their purpose.

It’s amazing how fast former supporters suddenly see themselves as victims when things start gong the other way.

You mentioned the Beer Hall Putsch Hitler led in 1923. Yes, he was tried and sentnced to prison for 5 years. I think he may have served 2. During that time he wrote Mein Kamph which detailed exactly what he was going to do. That was 7 years before he was named Chancellor. That has to be the start of the longest coup ever recorded.

It’s amazing how fast former supporters suddenly see themselves as victims when things start gong the other way.

I guess they were….“misled”?

The nazi era is a gold mine for anyone interested in understanding human nature. It’s complicated history though, and requires far more study than skimming a Wikipedia over view. Simplistic comparisons tossed about by shallow partisans notwithstanding, there’s a lot that can be learned from it.

“We may never see it coming or what form it will take.“

Hint: “Change!“

“[Hitler] was quoted as saying, ‘Instead of working to achieve power by armed coup, we shall hold our noses and enter the Reichstag against the opposition deputies.  If outvoting them takes longer than outshooting them, at least the results will be guaranteed by their own constitution.  Sooner or later we shall have a majority, and after that- Germany.‘“

Which sounds a bit like what some advocate here for the U.S.

Hitler did not rise to power in a coup.  My universal source of all that is good, Wikipedia, helps me out with a good definition of coup:

“the sudden overthrow of a government by a part of the state establishment — usually the military — to replace the branch of the stricken government, either with another civil government or with a military government.

Politically, the coup d’état is a type of political engineering, generally violent (hence “strike”, “blow”; French “coup”), but not always, yet differing from a revolution (by a larger, armed group to effect violent, radical change to the political system) in that the change is to the government, not the form of government.“

Hitler did not storm the palace gates and kick out the premier or anything like that in a violent military overthrow of government.  He wanted to do that at first, but when that failed, he took the more insidious route - using the country’s own constitutional system - along with intimidation and thuggery, as you suggest, no doubt - to win a “legal” majority of the legislature.  He essentially forced the democratic system to recognize the legitimacy of his party. 

Once he was in power “legitimately”, he then set about radically changed the rules.  But even there, the Nazis were very careful about changing the rules “legally” and constitutionally.  As Justice Jackson states, it is well-documented.  The made it legal and constitutional to do everything they did.  Thus, it was the actions of a legitimate government rather than a rogue state, supposedly.

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